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Potty-mouthed Professors: Why They’re the Best

Trust me. I should know. I’m one of them.  And if you are someone easily offended by foul, vulgar, profane language, this essay might not be for you.

There is an amazing essay written by Jordan Schneider in The Chronicle of Higher Education that covers why swearing in class isn’t that big of a deal; or, at least, why it should be totally acceptable. He makes an excellent case. As a professor who also swears in class, probably more than I ought, it’s an essay I post to my all my digital course spaces.  I don’t intend to rehash or parrot Schneider’s argument here; I do intend to build on one of his points: how swearing helps professors connect with students.

For many of my colleagues, first days are all about making impressions: it’s a performance.  They dress in their Sunday best—freshly starched shirt, crisp tie, business suit and briefcase, polished shoes—looking as if they drive the latest model E-class Mercedes Benz rather than the fifteen-year old Nissan Sentra parked in the lot.  I, on the other hand, opt for a much more casual tone. Think Friday night, Harley Davidson, biker bar.  Now, picture that character in the classroom, in the space occupied by intellectual authority: 5’10, 270 pounds—it’s not all fluff—with a rugged beard that hasn’t been trimmed or shaved in weeks, perhaps months, a black or white bandana tied widely around my head and pulled down to cover my eyebrows (Brett Michaels-style), a cut-off T, usually sporting a Slayer, Black Sabbath or Motorhead logo, cargo shorts or black jeans (depending on weather) and my backpack slung over my shoulder. The looks on students’ faces say more, “what’s happening right now?!” than they do, “you’ve got to be kidding me”; but probably that too. My appearance tells them: Question. Everything. Including your preconceived notions about what a professor is/should be.


Swearing is not the first thing I do, nor is it all I do, but it sure is the most memorable.  And now that I’ve got their undivided attention, I begin to teach: like every other professor, I cover the syllabus, the digital space in which they access and turn in assignments, requirements for the course, attendance policies, class etiquette, etc.  Once students get past the professor’s appearace, and perspicacious propensity for pathological profanity-laden puerility, they understand that this course is going to be all business.  They begin to understand that this course will involve successful time management, dedication, planning and forethought. I give my students a fairly heavy reading load considering the fact that they’re mostly freshman and sophomores—roughly 100 pages of reading per week in my lit courses. Students are concerned about this. I know this because they tell me in class. The fact that they even voice this concern in my course on the first day speaks volumes to how comfortable they feel. In a (student) culture where silence, not chatter, is the default setting, voicing concern says, “I trust and respect you enough to not bullshit you by quietly sitting here and pretending like I’m getting it.” I like to think this is because my behavior, my appearance, and my language tells them, “I’m a person too. The stereotype of the professor is a staged performance.” I try to get students to recognize that, in most cases, the way in which they see their professors is the way in which their professors want to be seen. A professor’s presentation to his or her students in the class room is little different than a singer’s relationship to their pop-song. A pop-song may really have nothing to do with the personal experience of the person singing it. In fact, the vast majority of pop music is not even written by the artist. For instance, Max Martin wrote fully one half of the last Taylor Swift album. I’ve digressed. The point is, your professors are probably a lot more like you than not: we swear; we fart in the office when no one’s around (or maybe that’s just me); we live with mental illness; we battle addiction; we laugh; we cry; we struggle with life: we don’t have it any more together than anyone else, it’s just that we’re occasionally better at faking it, and our position in society and as professionals lends itself to certain preconceived notions that are not always accurate.

Some students are shocked.  Some are offended.  Some will run to administration to complain.  And yes, I’ve been called in to the chair’s office on several occasions.  But here are the facts:. For most students, the shock, as I read it from the relationship I develop with them over the course of the semester, comes not from the fact that they are offended by foul language, but rather from the fact that they don’t associate that type of language with the University (capital “U”, as in, the whole system, the ivory tower, higher ed.).  However, if any of my readers have ever picked up an American classic such as Slaughterhouse 5, Huck Finn, Uncle Tom’s Cabin, Lolita, or (dear God!) Naked Lunch, they will be aware that vulgarity, racism, pedophilia, and whatever the fuck is happening with William Burroughs, is about par for the course. But seriously, William Burroughs is fucked.  Emily Dickinson’s “A narrow fellow in the grass” is essentially about a dick meeting a vagina.  Shakespeare is chock-full of dirty jokes, euphemisms and sexual innuendo.  When a character references another’s baldness it’s almost always a reference to venereal disease–syphilis.  How about the infinitive “to die”?  Elizabethan slang for having an orgasm.  Take this line from Malvolio in Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night: “By my life, this is my lady’s hand: these be her very C’s, /her U’s, and her T’s; and thus makes she her great P’s.”  CUT was a reference to the vagina.  But if you spell it out, C, U, aNd T… Well, it’s rather profane, lowbrow, ‘innit’?  Swearing, political incorrectness, uncomfortable and irreverent situations, dissent: these are hallmarks of great literature.


Swearing is also the norm in our society, not the exception. I teach at a medium-sized state university dominated by students from working- and lower middle-class backgrounds. While we have housing, most students commute: about a 60/40 split. We have lots of first generation students—students who are the first in their family to go to college. This means that, for the most part, students don’t show up with a blank check from mom and dad eager and ready to do nothing but be a student; some do, sure, but only a very, very few. The majority of my students work at least twenty hours per week. Some manage to work a forty-hour work week and attend school full time: usually a twelve to fifteen-credit course load. I hate to cast aspersions upon the working and middle-classes, but being one of them I feel somewhat justified in saying that the way I talk in (and out of) the class room is probably closer to the way they talk, generally, than other professors who don’t swear. Also, there is some research to back this up. Professor Timothy Jay, of the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts and author of Why We Swear and Cursing in America, highlights the fact that the working class swears more than either the “elite” or middle classes in the U.S.; but everyone swears; it’s part of our everyday vocabularies. U.S. News and World Report informs its readers that the average person spends 0.5% of their vocabulary per day swearing: How Stuff Works reports that that roughly 58% of Americans swear in public. Whether people realize it or not, swearing is the norm. So, it’s not that my language in class is somehow more vulgar or uncouth than the average American’s on a daily basis, it’s that society doesn’t associate this type of language with the type of spaces within which I work. What a pile of horse shit!

It is true, however, that one must be aware of what they’re saying and where they’re saying it. There is a difference between letting loose in a classroom, in a department meeting, and one on one with students. Using vulgarity in the wrong context or setting, one risks coming off as insincere, crude, uncouth, intimidating, unintelligent, as trying too hard. Dropping the motherfucker of all shit-bombs in a department meeting or a conversation with the Provost just doesn’t go over the same way as it does in the classroom. (This also depends on your relationship with that person.) When students pop into the office during office hours or by appointment, I tend to be much more on my guard with my language and keep the swearing to an absolute minimum, if I swear at all; I probably do. If I do swear one on one with a student, it’s often for comic effect or emphasis rather than for attention-grabbing.

My swearing lets them know that if the professor is willing to risk talking like he does, maybe they can risk a statement or question about the anxieties that they themselves are experiencing.  In an environment that is new for most students, many of them need reassurance; I fucking give it to them. Many of them quietly think and feel, “I don’t know what I’m doing here”, “I don’t belong here”, or, “I’m not sure that I have what it takes to be successful in college”. I don’t think this is in any way revelatory, as many of my readers who have been to college may have found themselves in exactly this situation, this state of mind at some point; I know I did as a student: I still feel this way as a professor. Vulgarity is explosive.  It demolishes a student’s preconceived notions of who we (professors) are and what we do: ideas, I fear, many professors perpetuate.  I know I’m god-damned well doing something right when: a student voices her uncertainty in her own ability to perform or maintain the type of diligence this course will require for a whole semester on the very first day, in front of, the entire class, rather than after or during an office hour: or when a student with a documented disability that prevents them from speaking in class becomes one of the main contributors to class discussion.   In a (student) culture where silence, not chatter, is the norm, getting one student to contribute often means others will follow; because, despite what students think about themselves, they run in packs, not as individuals.  Sometimes, you need only inspire one to inspire them all.


The point of all this is that students need to know they can be themselves, and that very few things, so long as we keep an atmosphere of consideration and respectability (of which foul language is not mutually exclusive), are off limits. Experience has taught me that showing them they can be themselves by modeling that behavior often makes a stronger impression than simply telling them it’s what I want. Rather than showing up in tweed and elbow patches with an “air” or authority, I strip it down; I say “fuck that noise”; I say here I am: the guy you get in class is pretty goddamn close to the guy you get at a barbeque on a Saturday in July. Let’s have a fucking conversation. My message, in all its forms, tells them that I will take them seriously no matter how they choose to express themselves in class, and that I want to hear what they have to say no matter the types of words they may use to convey it. And it all starts with letting them know that even here, in this ivory tower, we can use dirty language. So the next time someone asks you, “who gives a fuck?”, tell ‘em, Professor Norman.  Professor Norman gives a fuck.


  1. True, swearing to get an idea across is acceptable. In my field, if the condition of a property is “shit”, using a swear word to describe it is acceptable depending on the rapport you have with the client.

    Liked by 9 people

  2. interesting post. my experiences have shown me that swearing is an appropriate tool to use and get messages across to lot of people audiences. It also helps keep students on their toes.

    Liked by 6 people

  3. Totally agreed with the point of sharing, for emphasis, when used in the right context. For me, I swear a lot during small meetings with colleagues when delivering or commenting upon ideas thrown around. I feel like swearing is just normal in bringing out what we are really thinking and it just enhances the meaning behind our ideas. Thank you so much for sharing! 🙂

    Liked by 4 people

  4. Mountain Buddha,

    Great article. I agree that swearing is the norm, not the exception. There have been studies done that swearing actually shows intelligence. I wrote a piece about this on my blog ( on this topic.

    Thanks for writing! Keep up the good work!

    Emily Governale

    Liked by 6 people

  5. It’s exactly why I have recently started my site. Using vulgarity is the quickest way to gaining a reader’s attention. I could be all nice and treat people as Ann Landers always did, or I can get straight to the point, skipping the bullshit. Great site you have here. Congrats.

    Liked by 5 people

  6. I’m prior military, so I’m really comfortable with swearing. The professors that I’ve had who’ve used swear words are ALWAYS the most memorable and I enjoy the class 100 times more than the classes with professors who try to put on a facade of being very well put together.

    Liked by 5 people

  7. Interesting comments. I’m reading a book about why swearing is healthy for you and based upon the research, swearing does not relate to one’s limited vocabulary nor does it speak to a low level of intelligence. In fact, it is the opposite. I worked with the military for 12 years and to gain their trust (teaching sexual harassment prevention) I swore like a trucker. As a clinical counsellor, when I’m working with a teen who would rather be somewhere else, I let a few swear words fly and their mine! Our words are the most impactful and can make or break trust and connection with others. It’s funny and a little disturbing to me when I say this to a group of counsellors, they go blind and deaf at the same time and look at me like I have two heads. Excellent article!!! Thanks.

    Liked by 8 people

  8. I couldn’t agree more with this. When I was studying I always felt much more relaxed when a lecturer swore, and I studied drama so being relaxed was vital.

    I think the whole stigma around swearing in a lecture hall is ridiculous. We’re all people and, most importantly, we’re all adults so we should behave as such. Sure, there’s a defined power dynamic but you’re more likely to get the respect you deserve if you make yourself likable.

    Also, your taste in t-shirts is awesome.

    Liked by 6 people

  9. I love this post, very interesting for sure. I swear a lot outside of my day job, it’s sort of a release from having to be a so “pc” or what have you. It also helps get a point across or set the tone and I utilize in the work environment from time to time, often to, refraining from saying the entire or actually word as I’ve tried to control my emotions. Great read, thank you

    Liked by 4 people

  10. I agree with this. When I taught college math I would use strategically placed swear words for emphasis on certain areas. College students are adults and should be able to handle it. I knew it was a way to get their attention and I used it to my advantage.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. It is not my thing. As far as I can remember I have not sworn in class.
    Professors should have the right to say any words in class, particularly if they are in context, or are a quotation. If I want to say it, I should have the freedom of speech.
    I would be more afraid of using humor, or a joke that might miss.
    Students probably would not care if I swore at technology that wasn’t working. I think they would complain much more if I ever disparaged any of the sacred cows.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Indeed, Professor Edgell. This is not for everyone, and I can see how this may have come off as prescriptive. I do believe, however, that we ought to have this as a tool we may consider using from time to time. The humor os something else altogether. And here, you’re right. Much more risky.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. I enjoyed your essay and your point of view. But I disagree. My opinion is general cussing is a part of our selfishness and inconsideration of others. As a teacher, it’s not professional, and I feel like I lose respect.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. If you’re looking to attract other trashy people like yourself, then you’re doing a great job. Some people prefer to have a little dignity and self-respect for themselves by laying off the tattoos, not being obese, actually getting a haircut from time to time, etc. Makes sense you would swear a ton too. Professionalism appears to be completely dead in universities.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. The prof’s argument is gratuitous in its use of profanity. Students come to college to be edified—not to stay at the level they came in.

    100 pages a week to read is hardly what I’d call a challenge.

    I’ve been accused of “talking down” to people, yes—but no one has ever called me a poor teacher.

    I wouldn’t want to waste my money on a prof who is more interested in being a “regular guy” than serving as a model for his students.

    This guy has a pig-sty vocab. ALWAYS shows limited command of finer language skills!

    Liked by 2 people

    • I agree that not everyone talks like me. But most people do. Also, it’s simply not true that foul language denotes a lack of education or sophistication. Have you ever read Shakespeare, Hunter S. Thompson, Kurt Vonnegut, Vladimir Nabokov, William Burroughs? And yes, for first generation, first year students who struggle simply being in a college environment, 100 pages can, inin fact, be overwhelming. I respect your freedom to disagree but students DO NOT come to college to be edified. Not today. They come to get jobs. The vast majority of them care very little about how the humanities will make them a better human.


  15. I avoid swearing in general, partly because my parents were so opposed. Of course, I don’t buy into the idiotic notion that swearing indicates a lack of creativity or intellect. To tell the truth, “idiotic notion” is perhaps too much of a favorite phrase of mine. Typically after mentioning that Maxwell’s Eqns. imply electromagnetic waves (in vacuum) moving at the speed of light (in vacuum), and mentioning (for example) Supernova 1987a, the Andromeda galaxy, the most distant individual stars that have been detected (and their use in measuring distances), I might refer to the “idiot notion going around that the universe is only six thousand years old”.

    There is the issue: if one gets into the habit of swearing, one might inadvertently swear in an inappropriate setting.

    Other examples: I might admit that grading is a pain in the posterior.

    Liked by 4 people

  16. This was a great read! Lots of truth. I agree with it getting attention and making the students feel like you are a person just like them, but I also agree with certain times and places. Love the reference to Shakespeare!! Thanks for sharing.

    Liked by 3 people

  17. Wow, some of these comments are just too much! Hey guys, come down from the sky and slum it with us mere mortals once in a while huh?

    Swearing is not unimaginative- there’s a reason they call it colourful language.

    Swearing does not limit vocabulary, it adds to it.

    People don’t use a ‘bad’ word in place of a ‘good’ word they don’t know- we’re all capable of stringing a sentence together without swearing.

    What swearing does is add texture, it adds richness to what could otherwise be, a boring and mundane statement.

    And no clever-clogs, I am not so uneducated (despite my lack of college degree and working class background) to believe that swearing is the only way to add texture and impact; it’s just one of many tools people have at their fingertips.

    Professor, you have said it much more eloquently than I have and I am glad there are students out there that have access to such a nice, down to earth guy who can cut the bullshit and get down to the bare bones of actually teaching without the pomp and ceremony.

    If you’re interested on reading more about my take on swearing check this out,

    Thank you for being so open and sticking to your values, despite the negativity you recieve.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I don’t know, you’ve said it pretty damn well yourself here. I wish I had included the points about being colorful in my post. Also, I think some have gotten the impression that swearing is ALL I do. Far from it. My profanity is timed and placed. Also, I feel like some that are commenting simply haven’t read the article. If swearing is so off limits, so denotes a feeble mind, then we have to throw half the literary canon out the window! Thank you for your support and your kind words! I’ll definitely be checking out the article you wrote!

      Liked by 2 people

      • Forgive my late reply! Every single word we know is a tool to be used as and when we choose to use them.
        Great novels through the ages such as those you mention, interpret, reflect and amplify every aspect of life, which often is, profane and ‘rude’.

        Liked by 2 people

  18. As a former student of Professor Norman’s I can attest to the fact that his demeanor in the classroom impacted students’ experiences positively.

    I remember walking into his English class my first day of freshman year and being completely thrown off by the professor who stood before us. He dressed very differently than I assumed he should, but he was clearly educated, respectful, and well-spoken. Throughout the semester Norman proved to be a person who was invested in his role as an educator, as he took his students and his courses very seriously.

    Norman’s rough exterior served as a reminder to be nonjudgmental, and to allow for the time to get to know someone before placing accusations.

    His demeanor surely made himself relatable while providing a safe space for student, but my biggest take from the experience was to expect the unexpected, and to take time before placing judgements on a person or situation.

    Liked by 2 people

  19. I trust people who curse. I curse (so unintentionally-even when I try to have my filter on)…. because I’m passionate! I get caught up in passion and excitement and my little ‘sentence enhancers’ just fall right out! I totally agree with what you’re saying!

    Liked by 3 people

  20. Excellent article! As a graduate student, I feel much more comfortable with my professors than I did as an undergraduate. I chalk this up to a few things including the fact that my professors dress more casually and swear more often. Most of my professors also allow students to refer to them by their first name (in fact, some require it). I know some students that feel uncomfortable in these classes, but I, for one, feel much more comfortable being around professors that look, dress, and talk like me and use their first names. I think that this humanizes professors. Furthermore, it lessens feelings of “imposter syndrome” when you know and understand that you and your professor are not all that different from each other.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Agreed. When I was in grad school some of my professors treated us more like colleagues than students, and told us that’s really how we needed to think about it. I think perpetuating the stereotype that professors are people who have it all figured out, are smarter than everybody else, and that somehow we have this special knowledge is dangerous. For students, as well as for our own mental health. I think it also suggests that someone who thinks and behaves thus can’t control a classroom without that illusion of power. As someone who occasionally gets attacked by imposter syndrome, maybe that should be my next essay!


  21. I have a veery bad habit of cussing. It’s gotten so bad? I made it a resolution. That went downhill new years day. It helps relieve stress. But not in front of everyone. I slip up in stores. I try not to around children but oh well.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Think of it this way: linguists will tell you that lots of people fill spaces in their speech, those awkward silences or places where they’re thinking with “ums”, and “ahs”, and “uhs”. People like us fill it with a variety of different word choices at any given moment. View it as your creative outlet! LOL. Thanks for reading and writing!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Steven Pinker, a linguist academic, wrote about profanity being attached to the most trauma related areas of the brain. The pathways from swear-language to anger and pain are like superhighways. When a person feels pain or angry the very first thing that they say will most likely be profane. It is neuroscience-backed. I thought of this when I read about your struggle with cussing. Perhaps, instead of focusing on not using the cuss words, you could look into the triggers. Maybe focusing on happy thoughts will take this need away. Just a thought. But, don’t despair. No one keeps their New Year’s resolution.

      Liked by 3 people

  22. Oh praise be! I thought I was the only swearing teacher (Years 7 & 8, Yrs 9 – 13, tertiary). The first time I cut loose was when I entered a Yr 7 class in a low socio-economic community. The school within its radius had five gangs – tough dudes who ran the family roost like a bully, with language to match.
    I remember the first outburst and its reaction: surprise, followed by a gradual relaxation in the teacher/pupil interaction. My ‘swearing’ was not full-blown, but included “bloody-hell”, “Eff off away from there”, “Shut the muck up!” etc.
    (I also invented threats for misbehaviour: “Do that again and I’ll rip your arm off and hit you over the head with the soggy end” – not original, lifted from a Brit comedy show; “I’ll bang your head on that brick wall” – they knew I wouldn’t/couldn’t, but accepted I’d reached my limit and settled down, and we relaxed and got back to the work of learning.
    Thank you for reassuring me.

    Liked by 4 people

    • This is so fascinating. I feel like this is a whole new life achievement unlocked. Also, I think the dynamics of swearing around younger students poses a whole different set of risk/reward factors. Clearly, there is a good bit of humor in here. Also, and I’ll have to hunt this down, there has been some work that suggests that (particularly students from very low income areas) use language, threats and insults in a creative fashion. In the U.S., one of the ways we see this come to light is with kids and “your mama” jokes. They’re not just insulting each other. They are creating ever new ways to use language, and probably act out as well. Your comment was enlightening. Thank you. I do hope you’ll consider writing an essay on this!

      Liked by 1 person

    • You are a super person.
      My wrestling coach in HS behaved this way, and we loved him more for it.
      I read somewhere that boys challenge others, and after a tussle, albeit only words or behavior (psychologically standing up for oneself), will be more accepting of previous adversaries. You were probably empathizing with them when you swore and threatened.

      Liked by 2 people

  23. I’ve had a professor or two swear, usually as an expression of surprise or to emphasize their contempt towards a local public figure… while this causes the class to giggle, this actually humanizes the professors for us!

    Liked by 3 people

  24. As someone working with high school students, I feel that swearing is less of an option for me. That being said, I love the idea you have behind this. They don’t care about what we know until they know that we care. Building that connection with them is really what is most important, in my opinion. It’s what moves their minds and helps them to not only learn from us, as they naturally will, but to *want* to learn from us.
    A great read!

    Liked by 3 people

    • I agree. You are in a very different situation than I am. I reblogged another essay that deals with exactly this. Matt Weiman over at teaches third grade. For him, the line is not dropping f-bombs or in vulgarity, it’s in talking about farting. Which I find hilarious. He writes eloquently about this. I view his essay as somewhat of a companion piece to mine: in his own words, it is a compare and contrast essay based on what I have here. It’s an interesting exercise in audience. Thanks for reading Mollie!


  25. All this seems innocent enough these days. Such mindset has certainly emboldened our Elementary and Middle school kids. It is especially cute coming out of their mouths. And we chuckle as they curse their parents and teachers–sweet. Comedians and politicians and Hollywood and Performers of all types make cursing as common as ordering a meal from a menu. Why shouldn’t teachers just join right in too? Well Bleep tells my story.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I respect your differnce of opinion, and I thank you for the comment, but two items regarding your link, if you will. There is a vast difference between swearing in front of university aged adults and elementary or middle school students, which your lonk article addresses, don’t you think? And two, the Bible tells me sp is not a real argument.

      Liked by 2 people

  26. Cursing is just as bad as offending or calling someone bad names is.

    In my opinion, cursing should not be used in public especially a college or university.

    Instead, you should use appropriate words to replace those profane words. Telling the truth to others is good enough to get their attention or interest. That is what I do on my blog.

    Liked by 4 people

  27. My Freshman Comp II professor ran his classes very similarly. You should have seen the looks on everyone’s faces when he told us that there were several references to threesomes in Stoker’s Dracula. I had read it before so I wasn’t surprised, everyone else had a heart attack I swear. The instant I had the “we are not in Kansas anymore” revelation happened about two weeks into the semester. I was still getting lost because the building with most of the English classes is a long gray rectangle with very few distinguishing features so I was late again. I came around the corner just in time to see him close the door. At this point, I should mention that I use a motorized wheelchair and the professor is blind. I don’t have the strength to open the door and of course, he can’t see me. Finally, one of my classmates saw me and let me into the class. After class, my professor told me that if he ever shut the door in my face again I was perfectly within my rights to yell,” hey Jeremy open the door dumb ass.”

    Liked by 4 people

    • 😂 this is brilliant. And that’s exaclty my point about swearing and literature. If we want to pretend like swearing somehow projects an uneducated mind incapable if finding the right word, then we must throw out half the literary canon! Thanks for sharing such an amazing story. I thoroughly enjoyed raeding this response.

      Liked by 1 person

    • 😂 this is brilliant. And that’s exaclty my point about swearing and literature. If we want to pretend like swearing somehow projects an uneducated mind incapable if finding the right word, then we must throw out half the literary canon! Thanks for sharing such an amazing story. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this response.

      Liked by 1 person

  28. A friend of many years offered a well-intended comment some years ago: he noted that I am not given to swearing, to using language that is considered vulgar, obscene, profane, crass, coarse, offensive. I replied: I respect language, and because I do the day I use the language you suggest is inappropriate the world will tilt sideways and there will be a scorched crater in the wake. Without missing a beat my friend replied: I look forward to the occasion.

    Nice to meet you.

    Liked by 2 people

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